National Public Radio posted a story the other day with a totally predictable headline: “Mike Pence, pondering a presidential run, condemns Trump's rhetoric on Jan. 6.”
What we have here is a perfect chance to meditate on that concept that readers see all the time here at GetReligion, when dealing with the political lens through which most (#IMHO) elite-market journalists view the world. That would be: “Politics is real. Religion? Not so much.”
Things are a bit more nuanced with this particular NPR feature. To be blunt: The Steve Inskeep interview is way, way better than the feature that someone — an intern, perhaps — wrote about the contents of the interview.
The text version is — I am sure this will shock many — all about Donald Trump, Donald Trump and Donald Trump, with a near-laser focus on the events of January 6th at the U.S. Capitol.
Now, that’s a crucial subject, since Vice President Mike Pence was the man that many Trump-inspired rioters wanted to hang (or they chanted words to that effect). That’s a topic that cannot be avoided, and I get that. This is an interview that will infuriate Trump disciples and, at the same time, will leave the progressive left just as mad.
The bottom line: The interview is about Pence’s memoir “So Help Me God,” and that’s a book that has a much broader focus than recent partisan politics. I would argue — based on the interview itself — that the book’s most important contents are not linked to Trump, Trump, Trump. The most provocative parts of the interview are about federalism and (#triggerwarning) the First Amendment. But, first, here is the highlighted Trump material:
Pence faces an extraordinary challenge as a political leader whose national reputation is closely tied to the record of the Trump administration but who says the Constitution and his conscience would not allow him to follow Trump's ultimate demand. …
When a mob disrupted the proceedings, Pence retreated with family members to an office within the U.S. Capitol and then to an underground parking garage, but refused to flee the building.
"It just infuriated me," he said, and once police had restored control of the building, he managed that evening to preside over the completion of the vote count. Eventually he learned that many members of the mob, egged on by a tweet from the president, had chanted to hang him.
"President Trump was wrong, and his words and actions that day were reckless," Pence said. "They endangered my family and people at the Capitol building. And I'll never hold any other view."
Pressed on his 2016 statement that Trump is “a good man,” Pence offers the only religious content that made it into the printed NPR feature:
"I truly do believe that only God knows our hearts," he added. "And I'll leave it to others to make their own judgments."
There is so much more to this NPR interview than Trump, Trump, Trump. It helps that readers who make it to the end of the piece are offered a link to a full transcript.
What is the most newsworthy material there? I would argue that, after the complex results in the midterm elections, readers would want to know what Pence has to say about the U.S. Supreme Court and abortion. Here is a long same of that.
The key concept? That would be the court’s ruling in favor of federalism. Here is the important prologue to that:
… Look, I'm a Christian, a conservative and a Republican in that order. I've said that since my days on talk radio that I write about in So Help Me God. But I'm a limited government conservative. You know, I think one of the things that I think I brought to the Trump-Pence administration was not just my experience in Congress, but having been a governor. And understanding the role that governors and states play really informed my approach to leading the White House coronavirus task force. I mean, I knew from early on that our job was to get the states and get governors the resources, supplies that they needed to meet their moment. And that was the system that our founders had created. And so for me, it, you know, it all comes down to the Constitution, Steve. It all comes down to the limited government republic that our founders enshrined. And that's the foundation that I set -
NPR: And so more of the Ronald Reagan idea than the national conservatism idea.
As Ronald Reagan said in his first inaugural address, it's important to remember the states created the federal government. The federal government didn't create the states. And I think we would do well as a country to seize a moment where we, again, encourage states to be those laboratories of democracy and innovation that our founders contemplated.
Inskeep notes that states are reaching different conclusions on this issue and, clearly, Pence knows that. That leads to this crucial chunk of material, for those seeking input on alternative GOP points of view on what happens next:
Well, let me say I'm. I'm pro-life. I don't apologize for it. I'll always cherish the fact that I was vice president in the administration that appointed three of the justices of the Supreme Court. that gave us a new beginning for life, that returned the question of abortion to the states and to the American people where it belongs. And now that debate begins, I said, in the wake of the Dobbs decision, that we haven't come to the end. We've come to the end of the beginning. And I'm determined in however many years I have left on this earth to be a voice for the unborn and to work every day to restore the sanctity of life to the center of American law. But I've said to my fellow pro-life champions, it may take us as long to restore the sanctity of life to the center of law in every state in this country as it took us to overturn Roe versus Wade. But I believe a society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable. The aged, the infirmed, the disabled and the unborn. And all of my life, I'll ... whatever role we're in, I'll look to be a voice for the right to life.
NPR: You don't think that this election is the signal of where the country is going on this?
Well, I will tell you that the common denominator for me was that Republicans who articulated their position on the right to life, did well. Republicans who did not articulate their position, and allowed their position to be defined, did not do as well. And the truth is that, the Democratic Party today supports abortion on demand up to the moment of birth and taxpayer funding of abortion. Those are positions that are supported by about one out of four Americans. I truly believe that this is a pro-life country. We're still divided on the issue. …
But, look, I want to concede a point. We have a ways to go in this issue. But I believe that in the most prosperous nation on earth we ought to be a nation that is grounded in the unalienable right to life and makes it possible for women in crisis pregnancies to go to term, or raise their child, or give their child up for adoption. But I also think it's just as important as you see states advance pro-life legislation that the advanced legislation, not just for the unborn, but for the newborn. I think we have a unique opportunity to demonstrate the deep compassion of the American people and say yes to life with the generosity and the kindness of every American.
Readers will not be surprised that NPR raised questions about LGBTQ issues and fights over religious liberty, with or without “scare quotes.”
Pence turned this into a discussion of the First Amendment and the need to Americans to strive to be tolerant, even when dealing with believers that they consider intolerant. Here’s another large chunk of the transcript on what is a very newsworthy topic at the moment (think debates on the Respect for Marriage Act). Here are some key parts of the Pence discussion, which grows out of what the former vice president considered attacks on his own faith:
… When my wife was attacked for teaching at a Christian school. When one media outlet after another ridiculed our Christian faith from time to time, I was always struck by that. Because, you know, as I traveled around America, the words I most often heard, and I heard them every day. People would reach out across a rope line or stop me on a street corner and say, "I'm praying for you." I mean, this is a nation of faith, of different faiths. I'm a born again Christian, raised in a wonderful Catholic home. But the American people cherish faith in the overwhelming majority. And yet it seemed to be a subject of fascination by some in the liberal media. But it was always a blessing to me because the net effect of it was as I as I would learn, traveling around the country, I was always reminded that some of the criticism from those on the left about my deeply held religious beliefs would invariably remind people that I, who shared those values and those beliefs, that we share have something in common.
This is long, but let’s keep reading:
NPR: When you said you were misunderstood in the chapter, I believe you were talking about very in various ways, people in the LGBTQ community. Is there something on issues having to do with sexual orientation and gender that people misunderstand about you?
Well, I write an entire chapter, in the book, about our experience here in Indiana. With the passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. You know, I believe President John F Kennedy said, to lead is to be misunderstood. And here was a bill in the run up to the decision legalizing gay marriage by the Supreme Court. It was immediately characterized in the media as a license to discriminate, which, of course, it clearly wasn't. And legal scholars at the time recognized that. And we found our way through it. And we eventually took actions necessary to reassure people that there was no license to discriminate. You know, I'm a Hoosier, Steve. You know something about that. Hoosier hospitality is not a slogan. It literally is the way we live every day. Hoosier's are some of the most caring, compassionate, strong willed, but strong hearted people you'll ever meet in your life. And I said at the time when I was governor, I don't believe anyone should ever be harassed or discriminated against because of who they are, who they love, or what they believe. But that being said, there are profound implications on this question. As Justice Kennedy wrote in the Obergefell decision that, "Bear upon religious freedom." And the courts have been sorting through that ever since. I will tell you, I've been encouraged that the Supreme Court has been striking a balance on the issues of religious liberty and individual rights. And I trust that the conservatives on the court will continue to do that. But if there's anything people don't understand well about the Pences, to know Karen and Mike Pence, to know our family is that we love everybody. My faith tells me to love your neighbor as yourself. And that's something we aspire to do every day, whether we agree with every view or every value of the people that we meet.
There’s much more, but here is one final chunk of the First Amendment material. The key: Will Americans be willing to tolerate Americans that they believe are intolerant?
You know, during my time as Vice President, my opinion of the American people went up, not down. I've seen the American people in good times, I've seen them facing natural disasters and I've seen the incredible generosity. What I write about and So Help me God, is that for many Bible believing Christians, we perceive what I call the intolerance of tolerance. That in the name of tolerance, people are intolerant …
NPR: Toward people like you.
Of traditional views. … I don't argue for a moment that people on the other end of that debate have felt the same way. One of the reasons is, I think we need to get to a place. Where we recognize again what really the First Amendment is all about. And that is it's the right to live, to work, to worship according to the dictates of your conscience and to respect one another. I do think it's one of the things I've heard over and over traveling around the country.
What’s my main point? At this moment in time, what was the most newsworthy subject in this very interesting NPR interview? Did the online feature let readers a chance to know the range of topics that were discussed?
Just asking. It’s a fine interview — so read the transcript.
FIRST IMAGE: Screenshot from YouTube feature posted by TheJournal.ie